Death-Valley.net

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

gregblakeney — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:24:10 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:24 pm (GMT -7)

Many fond memories crossing the Huey Long bridge as a kid coming into New Orleans from Houma. They are actually widening it now, almost finished I hear. Check the animated vid at top of this page . . . http://www.timedla.com/bridge/long/overview/

My dad's business has been on the corner of Tchoupitoulas and Julia since before I was born . . . that is up until a few months ago when they moved to Metairie.

Bought my first new car at Bohn Brother's Toyota on the west bank in '89.
_________________
Greg aka gerg

I'll take 'Rocket Surgery' for $400 Alex . . .

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

Original Bigfoot — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:15:00 GMT

Author: Original Bigfoot
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:15 pm (GMT -7)

Howdy!

Moved to the West Bank in Feb. of 1996, and back to Bullhead City, AZ around the end of 1997. I worked for Hill-Behan Lumber Co. just over the Huey P. Long Bridge on the east bank, and my then wife worked for West Building Materials on the west bank for a short time. Then we managed the U-Haul Self-Storage and Rental on the West Bank Expressway in Marrero for about 10 months.

My 12 year old son was born at Charity Hospital in N.O. in 1997.

If you like the remote western U.S., then the Death Valley area is going to definately get a hold of you! There is so much remoteness, history, interesting geology, etc.

As far as getting from Shoshone to Ballarat off the pavement...the route through Butte Valley is the only "direct" open route that is off-pavement, but as mentioned, it requires 4 wheel drive. There used to be other dirt roads that would get you there, but they've been either washed away, closed by bureaucratic edict, or cross "military" land and aren't open to the general public.

The only other way is to take the pavement like you have planned, but that is a very scenic route in it's own right, and will take you to many of the "Approved National Park Service Attractions" along the way.

The first time I visited Death Valley, I had a 1982 Ford 1/2 ton van. It had a limited-slip rear axle, and would get me into places that surprised a lot of folks, but was not near up to the task of trails I regularly take nowadays.

Death Valley Talk :: RE: How much is too much for 3 days

David_Bricker — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:22:24 GMT

Author: David_Bricker
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:22 pm (GMT -7)

Man from Mono, this is one of the tricky things of online bulletin boards. Someone reads that route x is open, but ignores the restrictions of the route. So, is the person that ignores the restrictions at fault, or is the posting of the route in a public forum the problem. It is a fine line, indeed. There certainly are places that I don't post publically, because they are very remote, or the road conditions are very difficult. On the other hand, I enjoy sharing routes with folks that have similar experience and equipment.

Morrie, you and I are (were) in the same boat. I live in upstate New York, so driving a vehicle back and forth is not possible. I have, however, been coming to DV for 40 years now, having grown up in So. Cal., so have the experience. So rental Rubicons would suit me well. The owner of the rental facility in Furnace Creek has been doing this for 27 years, and has locations in Moab and elsewhere, so I assume he has run into the inexperienced tourist before. But, I agree, I'd be curious if he does any determination of a particular renter's skills and preparedness. I guess time will tell.

Aedwards27, yep, whether unfamiliar or just not bright, a lot of folks come to Death Valley with a completely unrealistic idea of the conditions. Several years ago, a tourist, I believe a German, died in Golden Canyon. Like you mentioned in your example, there was one small bottle of water between two of them. Good for you to give them some water. I carry no less than 5 gallons of water in the Jeep, and usually much more.

David Bricker / SYR

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

gregblakeney — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:54:59 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:54 am (GMT -7)

Al - I enjoyed looking at your pics last night when I finally was able to register and search.

Thanks for the info!

As far as buses go, there are a couple I'd try just about anything in, but not the ones pictured in my post or avatar. Hahaha

I've seen some late model 4x4 Westy Synchro's go some pretty insane, seemingly impossible places. But I don't own one . . .
_________________
Greg aka gerg

I'll take 'Rocket Surgery' for $400 Alex . . .

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

Albin — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:49:41 GMT

Author: Albin
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:49 am (GMT -7)

Agree with all the comments about being prepared, and especially agree about not trying Mengel Pass/Goler Wash with a rental vehicle and not a VW bus!

Having said that, here are pics from our 2008 Summer Desert Trip, Beatty, NV through Furnace Creek, Warm Springs Canyon, Striped Butte Valley, Mengel Pass, Goler Wash and Ballarat and then back to Beatty, all in one day. We didn't start at the crack of dawn and we didn't kill ourselves either. Nice relaxed, stop-and-take pics kind of day.

http://www.rocketcityrockcrawlers.com/pubpics/2008_Summer_Desert_Trip/Al_08_04/index.htm

Enjoy!

Al
_________________
North Alabama Desert Rat

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

gregblakeney — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:36:43 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:36 am (GMT -7)

Where were you in Louisiana?

Born and raised in and around New Orleans. Moved from Hammond to Santa Rosa, CA in 99, then to Vegas in '00.

Thanks to all for the replies! I picked up a simple Falcon Guide last night that highlights some of the more common attractions. Simple start, but I am still addicted to actually holding a book - even though I am normally the first to boast about the endless wealth of info (good or bad) on the web, I can only read so much in front of a monitor . . . but I do 'loves me some' forums.

What I should have probably asked was for a path between Shoshone and Ballarat, that was not the common paved road, but did not require a 4x4 - maybe a decent vehicle with clearance. Understanding that it may not exist . . .

Like all my other sicknesses, I am now becoming consumed with visiting and learning about DVNP . . .

As far as smooth blacktops and camping, I roam around the country in this:

I'll be headed to Fredericksburg, TX next month for a show and camp out.

I'll be acquiring a much more capable off road vehicle in the future for when I am ready to get off the pavement.
_________________
Greg aka gerg

I'll take 'Rocket Surgery' for $400 Alex . . .

Death Valley Talk :: RE: How much is too much for 3 days

Aedwards27 — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:54:36 GMT

Author: Aedwards27
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:54 am (GMT -7)

Hey everyone, this is my first post here, I'm actually leaving for DV on Friday from home (Oklahoma, where the weather is also usually trying to kill you).

What you were saying about the tourists coming in from Vegas became all too apparent to me on my last trip in May of last year. This does not even involve vehicular issues but just stupidity.

On my first day I decided to go on and do the Golden Canyon/Zabriskie hike to get myself used to the terrain again. Right at about the point where you make the choice to go to Red Cathedral I ran into a group of about 5 "tourists" from Florida who had driven in from Vegas. It was in the high 90s and still pretty dangerous out at 4-5PM hour when I saw them. They had ONE 32 oz bottle of water between them from which they were all sharing with their plastic solo cups. One of them asked me "Why do you have ALL THAT water with you?! Thats like a gallon!"

I later saw them back at the Golden Canyon parking lot where one was looking as if she was about to pass out. I gave them a gallon of water I had in the trunk, some Gatorade, and one of the small bags of Doritos, asked if they wanted me to get them help (they declined).

I kept expecting to hear of a death worthy of the Darwin Awards the next morning when I woke up, guess they actually made it though.

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

Original Bigfoot — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:43:43 GMT

Author: Original Bigfoot
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:43 am (GMT -7)

As far as getting out to Death Valley, your timing will be way ahead of me! I moved to Las Vegas in 1982, lived there until 1991, when I moved to Bullhead City, Arizona. During those times, I also spent about 18 months in Illinois, and then back to Vegas, and just under two years in Louisiana, and then back to Bullhead. I didn't get out to Death Valley until 1998! Since then, I fell in love with the place, and my original 4 day, three night excursion has grown to sometimes two or three trips a year, of up to two weeks at a time. My wife and I were just out there the second week of February, and I'll be back on April 7th for a couple weeks. Currently, we live in Farmington, New Mexico, so it's quite a drive to get out there nowadays!

Once you get the feel for Death Valley, and have the right vehicle, the trip through Butte Valley is WELL worth it...if you like remoteness and being well away from civilization. Not everyone does. Even though it's a pretty popular route, you can't go out there counting on anyone to be around to help if you get into trouble. On any given day, we've passed 5-10 vehicles along the route, or no vehicles at all.

We've made a loop from Furnace Creek, over 190 into Panamint Valley, south to Ballarat, down to Goler, east up Golar, over Mengal Pass, through Butte Valley, out to West Side Road, and back north to Furnace Creek, easy in one day. But I was riding with a friend in his full size Ford Bronco that day.

Every other time I've been out there in my own vehicle, I've made plans to spend some time and camp here and there. Generally, Any stoutly built 4x4 can make it with patience and care and some equipment. I've driven the route from Death Valley, through Butte Valley, and out to Panamint Valley in a 1969 Jeep Wagoneer (which I still have), a 1973 Jeep Wagoneer, a 1988 Jeep Cherokee (the smaller Cherokee, a great vehicle!), a 2000 Jeep Wrangler repeatedly over the years, and a 2002 Jeep Liberty, (which is a decently capable 4x4, but which has turned out to be the worst vehicle I've ever owned as far a general durability and expense of repairs/maintenance is taken into account, I don't recommend them!).

I carry a "Hi-Lift" farm jack, shovels, etc. And nowadays, both the vehicles I take out there are equipped with winches, though I've never needed them over Mengal..there not much to hook onto anyways..perhaps a boulder or another vehicle if traveling with someone. But the "Hi-Lift" jack is probably the most useful piece of extraction equipment I've ever owned! I use that thing all the time, and it's meant the difference between driving away, or walking away, on several occasions. In all backcountry travels, take plenty of non-perishable food, and plenty of water. Once you know the area, and gain confidence, you can pare down your supplies to suit your comfort level, but it's always best to be overprepared, rather than underprepared.

I think I read somewhere that the difference between an emergency and an adventure is the level of preparedness.

And preparedness includes attitude. You want to be comfortable enough to be able to think your way out of a situation in case something doesn't go as planned. Give yourself a buffer with some extra supplies, and it can take the pressure off, allowing you to think clearly about how to get out of a situation.

I study maps religiously, I want to know what's around me, especially springs, cabins, roads, etc.

It all depends on how serious you are about getting into the backcountry.. You can also go into Butte Valley from West Side Road, and come back out the same way, without going over Mengal Pass, which is by far the worst part, but you still want 4 wheel drive, (not "All Wheel Drive") and ground clearance, because there are some sandy areas and can be a few rocky "steps" to climb, particularly just past the Warm Springs Mining Camp.

And I would say there might be one exception to the "No VW bus" rule. A couple of years ago, we ran across some folks out there who had been traveling the Panamint Valley to Death Valley route through Butte Valley in a 4x4 VW Westfalia camper van, and that thing was cool! If I remember right, we were paying around $4 to $5 a gallon for gasoline in the area at the time, and were greatly jealous of the fuel efficiency those folks were enjoying compared to us in our Jeep Wranglers!

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

Morrie — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:23:31 GMT

Author: Morrie
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:23 am (GMT -7)

Quote:

Butte Valley to Mengel and out through Goler roads are in the worst shape I've seen them in years

Are you referring to the part near Mengel Pass which is normally the roughest part of the road, or to other things like mud due to all the rain (or snow) which should soon dry out?[/quote]

Death Valley Talk :: RE: How much is too much for 3 days

Morrie — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:07:41 GMT

Author: Morrie
Subject: Renters can be experts
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:07 am (GMT -7)

I share the concern about inexperienced tourists from Vegas, and part of me has no desire to see more people in the backcountry. But I'd just like to add my 2 cents: I'm a New Englander who has been going to the desert southwest, mostly southeastern Utah and Death Valley, for over 25 years, and each one was a backcountry trip. On my first trip I didn't own a jeep and had never driven 4WD, but I rented one in Moab and went out into the wilderness for 3 days. Each year I went back, my trips got longer and I gained more experience, to the point where I now feel like an expert. Sure, despite my careful attempts, I made quite a few mistakes early on, some of them even a bit scary, but what better way to learn than "on the job"?

If it had not been for decent 4WD rentals I would never have had the chance to experience these areas, since driving my own vehicle from Boston would have been impractical, and owning my own off-road-capable vehicle in New England makes no sense. I owe my gratitude to outfits like Farabee's that are willing to give non-locals like me an opportunity to experience the backcountry in a responsible way with the proper equipment.

The Moab area has had jeep rentals for many years, and it has at least as many places to go where you can get into trouble as does Death valley. The roads are at least as bad and help can be just as remote. While it's not as hot as DV, water is as hard to come by and 100+ in the summer is still the norm. I have no idea how often people get into trouble there in rental vehicles, but the system must be "working" at some level or it wouldn't persist.

I would assume/hope that anyone who rents out jeeps would ask people a few questions about their experience and give them maps with suggested routes and instructions appropriate to their level of competence. They hopefully don't promote it for the "thrill" of the driving but as a means to see some places that there's no other way to visit. I admit those Rubicons are overkill for places I would suggest to a newbie, but I'm sure I'm not the only potential renter with the skills to make use of one on the more challenging routes.

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

Man From Mono — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:12:46 GMT

Author: Man From Mono
Subject: Butte Valley
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:12 am (GMT -7)

Just to confirm what David pointed out.

Butte Valley to Mengel and out through Goler roads are in the worst shape I've seen them in years--great if you have the right vehicle, supplies and a buddy or two also similarly prepared. No place for VW bus or rental jeeps!

Death Valley Talk :: RE: How much is too much for 3 days

Man From Mono — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:01:08 GMT

Author: Man From Mono
Subject: Rentals over Mengel
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:01 am (GMT -7)

Well said, David.
But all the caveats you note will be ignored, I fear, by tourists who fly into Vegas or LA, drive to DV, see the pretty Jeeps at Furnace Creek and figure they can explore the backcountry. Happens too often already and now access is made even easier. Gentleman operating rental agency may be well intentioned but just how knowledgeable is he about DV, the backcountry, etc.? How will keep his customers from venturing into places they are not prepared to get to (or return from)?

I realize my concern is more appropriate to another thread but having seen far too many passenger cars in Saline over the years and now expecting to see rental jeeps on Lippincott, this is a tragedy waiting to happen.

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

David_Bricker — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:11:48 GMT

Author: David_Bricker
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:11 pm (GMT -7)

You can get to all places discussed with your van. A couple of the spur roads are well graded dirt, but should be no issue.

Camping is allowed in DVNP outside of established campgrounds (Furnace Creek, Stobvepipe, Emigrant, Wildrose, Panamint Springs, etc) with the following exceptions:

2 miles from a paved road
200 yards from a water source
certain roads, such as Cottonwood Canyon Rd, the Ractrack Rd. have more restriction

David Bricker / SYR

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

gregblakeney — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:32:37 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:32 pm (GMT -7)

Sounds good. Since I am likely doing paved roads now, I may drive my '60 VW single cab and camp in the back of it if that is allowed in the area.

Are all the roads I mentioned paved well? The VW sits pretty low, pretty much the opposite of what I was planning originally

Not the one in my avatar, that is a good friend's '57 panel.
_________________
Greg aka gerg

I'll take 'Rocket Surgery' for $400 Alex . . .

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

David_Bricker — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:18:38 GMT

Author: David_Bricker
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:18 pm (GMT -7)

Glad to be of some help. I really didn't mean to come down hard on you, but I do want you to be cautious. If you've been in Las Vegas for 10 years, I'm betting you understand how dangerous the desert can be for the unprepared.

In reality, a day trip from Las Vegas is doable, but I'd highly recommend at the very least an overnight. If you want to see some of Panamint Valley, spending the night at Panamint Springs will let you spend a day in Death Valley proper, then spend most of the next day in Panamint Valley and still get back to Las Vegas that night.

Look in one of the recent other posts in this topic for recommendations for the day in Death Valley. Then, Panamint Valley can include Darwin Falls, Ballarat, and some other side canyons, depending on your interest.

I'll be out in April, so perhaps we can connect, depending on where you are planning this. The wildflowers may be pretty nice this year, but it appears it will be a very short season. That might dictate when you go out.

David Bricker / SYR

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Barker RANCH on TV

gregblakeney — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:43:55 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:43 pm (GMT -7)

Just a slab / pad now or burned framework?
_________________
Greg aka gerg

I'll take 'Rocket Surgery' for $400 Alex . . .

Death Valley Backcountry :: RE: Harry Wade exit road?

Original Bigfoot — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:40:43 GMT

Author: Original Bigfoot
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:40 pm (GMT -7)

It was pretty dang warm, that was for sure. I had my ex-wife and my two boys with me, and I probably heard "It's hot!" from my ex about 300 times in three days. The kids are pretty adaptable, they were probably around 3 and 5 at the time, and took it all in stride. We had lived in Bullhead City, Arizona for quite a while, my youngest son was born there, and were used to "warm" weather. It's regularly over 100 degrees there in the summer, and the kids still play outside.

We drank plenty of water! I had about 15 gallons with us, and we refilled at every spring we came across. We wetted down our blankets and sleeping bags to help cool us off to sleep at night. It was certainly "interesting".

I had heard that if you keep the canvas covers of military canteens soaked in hot weather, the evaporative cooling will make the water inside cool. It works!

We were out there pretty remote, so we didn't have any stoners keeping us awake...in fact, I don't remember seeing another vehicle out there the whole three days.

Even though there was nothing but a bikini top on the Jeep, we did use the A/C from time to time just to get a little cool air on our faces now and then...I developed a healthy respect for Jeeps engine cooling system..we never even got close to overheating, running the A/C, even cruising around backcountry trails.

I will admit, I've not been in the Death Valley area in July since...

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

gregblakeney — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:27:34 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:27 pm (GMT -7)

That is exactly the feedback I was looking for. I raced through the route on paper, I am sure I missed some of it. I just could not find any info on how the path was . . .

Reconsidering, I will likely go up 178 to Furnace Creek, then 190 over towards Panamint, then back south on 178 - checking out short paths off the main roads.

I had an Expedition when I first moved to Vegas and went through (what I considered) pretty rough stuff in Toiyabe area, but unfortunately have never been to Death Valley. Ten years here, go figure.

Thanks for the info!
_________________
Greg aka gerg

I'll take 'Rocket Surgery' for $400 Alex . . .

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

David_Bricker — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:39:10 GMT

Author: David_Bricker
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:39 pm (GMT -7)

The route through Butte Valley goes over Mengal Pass and into Goler Wash. Without 4wd, perhaps lockers, high clearance and a decent amount of off road experience, this route is not doable. There are a couple of places on the route that are quite challenging, and it is possible, with the wrong kind of vehicle and/or experience, to get stuck between two impassible sections of road.

If you are talking small SUV like a Ford Escape, I wouldn't try it. At the very least, you'll need to have extra food and water, recovery gear, tire plug kit, full size spare, etc.

Not trying to sound sarcastic, but from your description, you have only one part of the route correct. That would indicate that you may not be too familiar with Death Valley, and the type of terrain you may encounter. Unfortunately, the maps sometimes aren't clear as to road condition. I'd just hate to see someone get stuck out there. Without a backup vehicle and the proper gear, it's not worth the risk, in my opinion.

David Bricker / SYR

Death Valley Backcountry :: RE: Harry Wade exit road?

netllama — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:35:12 GMT

Author: netllama
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:35 pm (GMT -7)

Yikes, 100F at night?!?! I camped at Emigrant last Labor Day weekend, and the lowest it got overnight was 84F, and I was beyond miserable (the stoners at the other side of the campground partying until 3AM didn't help either). I can't even imagine trying to sleep in 100F heat.

Death Valley Talk :: RE: Heading to Death Valley this Friday! First timer... HELP!

gregblakeney — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:46:46 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:46 pm (GMT -7)

Interesting - I may be riding out from Vegas Friday myself. Where you guys coming in from?

Upcoming Trips :: RE: Indian Pass Cyn, more Owlsheads, Anvil Spg Cyn backpacking

SteveHall — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:44:46 GMT

Author: SteveHall
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:44 pm (GMT -7)

Mojave, you can definitely say I discovered some gems. But I put them all back on the ground where I found them when I was finished. I will be showing some pictures, but leaving others out of my upcoming report.

Greg, I wish I could say I was the foremost authority, but I'm definitely not. I have run into people in the Owlsheads and talked to some by e-mail who have done stuff out there I've never even dreamed of. Maybe someday I can catch up with them. I've still got a ton more hikes to do out there, but perhaps only one more for this trip. I'm sure your daughter will enjoy DV. My family members are hoping to come out this Fall, which will definitely cause me to drop most of my hikes and just show them around. But it's worth it.

David, I will be missing you once again. I'm leaving the park and ending my Spring trip at the latest on March 22. It's possible I will return on April 14th, but that would just be for a short backpacking trip with a couple of friends. Maybe I'll catch up with you in the Fall.

I should add that Dave from the forum did a couple of hikes with me and also brought out the kayaks for the Lake Manly photos. He's really nice, just like everybody else I've met from here.

Spring 2010 Short Trip Break

After doing the 4 days of epic hiking in the Owlshead Mountains, I took a short break from my Spring 2010 trip. Now I am set to resume hiking in Death Valley to a wide range of destinations starting on Wednesday or Thursday. Once that happens, I will check in again from Death Valley at the first opportunity. Until then, I leave you with a great view of the beautiful Crystal Hills in southwestern Death Valley.

HIKING MILEAGE UPDATE

Day 1- Nemo Cyn / Mud Spring (5 miles), Day 2- Talc Cyn overnight (9.5 miles), Day 3- Owlshead Cyn (13.5 miles), Day 4- Sagenite Cyn & Owl Lake (11 miles), Day 5- Lost Lake & Epsom Salt / Crystal Hills (19 miles).

Total to date for Spring 2010 Trip� 58 miles

View of the mysterious Crystal Hills in Death Valley:

_________________
Steve's Death Valley Adventures-
www.panamintcity.com

Death Valley Talk :: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley

gregblakeney — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:32:45 GMT

Author: gregblakeney
Subject: Curious about Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:32 pm (GMT -7)

I was searching for info here and didn't find the particular route, perhaps I searched the wrong terms.

I am interested in the route between Shoshone and Ballarat - driving through Ashford Jct., then continuing on Jubilee Pass / Butte Valley / Coyote Canyon through to Ballarat area.

This route normally drivable in a small SUV? Was considering a day trip pretty soon.

Thanks!

Greg

Death Valley Talk :: RE: How much is too much for 3 days

David_Bricker — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:05:04 GMT

Author: David_Bricker
Subject: Re: Rental Jeeps over Mengel?
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:05 pm (GMT -7)

Man From Mono wrote:

On this and other forums, have always respected Mr. Bricker's comments but recent remark about tourists renting Rubicons and driving over Mengel raised an eyebrow. Having just made the run from DV to PV through Warm Springs, Butte Valley, over Mengel and out through Goler, I can state without hesitation that it's no place for someone without 4WD experience, supplies and preparation--unlikely given the type of rental customer described. This has all the makings of another backcountry disaster.

You have an excellent point, and I agree there should be some caviats placed in my comments. While a Rubicon rental may give you the vehicular capabilities to traverse Mengal and Goler, it certainly does not give you the driving ability to do so. I was relating my discussion with the owner of the rental facility. I do not know how the rental agency would determine the capabilities of a particular renter, and what routes to recommend.

So, what I should have added to my original post:

While you might be able to rent a capable vehicle, you must make absolutely sure that you yourself, are capable of handling the terrain you are attempting, that you have adequate supplies and recovery gear, and that you have someone going with you. Also, that people know where you are going, and when you expect to return. I have seen tourists put standard passenger cars in places they don't belong, I do believe this invites someone to get into even more remote locations with even less chances for a positive outcome.

Thanks for pointing this out.

David Brickder / SYR

Photography Forum :: RE: Some Images

gedstrom — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:13:53 GMT

Author: gedstrom
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:13 pm (GMT -7)

Thanks! Great pictures!

Gary