Mysterious Steel Rebar North of Mesquite Dunes - Details

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Otis
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Post by Otis » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:47 am

Unless there's another pair, nobody moved the cars. They are still there as of 1/1/16.



Edit: Removed picture since it served no purpose
Last edited by Otis on Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Death Valley Dazed
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Good news, hope they are still there my next visit.

Post by Death Valley Dazed » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:40 pm

So I can take some night shots. I don't know how I missed those first week in December.
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MojaveGeek
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Post by MojaveGeek » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:28 am

It is nice to see the old familiar landmark there. I've used those wrecks as a navigational aid when coming out of Dolomite canyon in the dark :)

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Candace_66
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Post by Candace_66 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:59 pm

Kauri wrote: The researcher from the USGS who installed the dust collection platforms (marble bird baths) retired last year and could not find anyone else to continue the long term dust study. She removed both dust collection platforms over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.
I'm skeptical about this claim.

At any rate, what about the vandalism of the Rhyolite-Skidoo phone line? Seems to have happened at the same time the rebar was removed.

Not to mention the bigger issue, that we don't know how NPS determines what to "clean up" and what to leave.

Glad to hear the cars out near Lake Hill are apparently still there. Wonder if they're now on the radar?

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TacoLand
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Post by TacoLand » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:40 am

Any reason you're skeptical about that claim from the USGS researcher?

Any reason you say the cars are only "apparently" out near Lake Hill?

Almost sounds like you're looking for things to be upset about ... :biggrin:

Otis
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Post by Otis » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:56 am

Candace_66 wrote:Wonder if they're now on the radar?
Well, they've now been brought to the Park's attention, so .......




Edit: Removed grumpy reply, left relevant portion for context of Tacoland's post.
Last edited by Otis on Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TacoLand
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Post by TacoLand » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:32 am

Candace_66 wrote:Wonder if they're now on the radar?
Otis wrote:Well, they've now been brought to the Park's attention, so .......
Yeah ... they probably never noticed those cars before in the last 21+ years since becoming a national park. Way to ruin the secret, guys!

Of course, completely ignoring ...
Kauri wrote:"The removal of the cars by the Big Four Mine Road was not authorized by the park service, and they didn't seem to be aware that the cars were gone. It sounds like that situation will probably be looked into."
:lol:

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Post by Otis » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:01 pm

TacoLand wrote: Yeah ... they probably never noticed those cars before in the last 21+ years since becoming a national park. Way to ruin the secret, guys!
Completely missed the point. Big or small, give the Park a reason to f with stuff and it will.

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Death Valley Dazed
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I regret stirring the pot here with my assumption that the

Post by Death Valley Dazed » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:58 pm

two old car carcasses were missing when it appears that they are still there. I do hope the NPS will leave them be.

They are understaffed so I have a hard time believing that they have the time and budget to start removing "vintage artifacts" that were clearly there when the park became official.

On one of the first adventures I took after discovering the park was hiking into Hungry Bill's. I loved the place and was worried about it eventually totally disappearing from natural and man made forces.

I spoke with a ranger at the Visitor's Center about re-stacking the rock fences and/or re-setting some of the old wooden items myself. I believe it was Bob Greenburg (now retired) with whom I spoke and he said that the park policy was to leave things be as they were when the park became official and that if I did re-stack rock fences or re-arrange the wooden items, that the rangers would just have to taken them down and restore them to the spots from which I had removed them.

He wasn't nasty or mean about the comments, just kindly and matter of factly straightening out a naive new fan of the park. I appreciated him setting me straight.
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MojaveGeek
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Post by MojaveGeek » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:40 pm

I am impressed that the rebar got removed so quickly. I would guess it was part of some study marking a plot and that should certainly have been removed at the end of the study. So bravo for that one.

But taking up the old phone line, that really surprises me. That would seem to be a historic artifact. And I've seen it in many places fairly accessible from 190, so it's weathered a fair amount of exposure and human curiosity over the years.

I would be very interested in hearing the NPS response to this and some explanation of policy but they don't post here and, unfortunately, it's rare that you'll find a really knowledgeable person behind the info desk at the VC. Oh I have met some, including Charlie, there, but it's pretty chancy that you'll find someone to answer a specific question.

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Candace_66
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Post by Candace_66 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:23 pm

TacoLand wrote:Any reason you're skeptical about that claim from the USGS researcher?
I'm not skeptical about Ms. Reheis...I'm skeptical that she was the one who removed them. But I'm not calling her to ask.
Any reason you say the cars are only "apparently" out near Lake Hill?
Because I haven't personally verified it.

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Death Valley Dazed
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Two old cars carcasses still there

Post by Death Valley Dazed » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:46 am

Just to be clear, those two battered old cars are still there. I was in error at the beginning of this thread, claiming that they were missing. My error was not heading far enough north on the Big Four road towards Lake Mountain and reckoning from my faulty memory of the two cars being only a quarter of a mile off the main highway.

I have since revisited the area and have seen the two cars in their same location.

Sorry for the misinformation but glad to set the record straight. I don't think anyone is planning on removing the cars as they seem to be part of the historical record now.
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Candace_66
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Re: Mysterious Steel Rebar North of Mesquite Dunes - Details

Post by Candace_66 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:38 am

Bumping this extremely old thread! :blah:

While searching for something else, I stumbled across some info that may relate to this. "Erosion pins" are used to measure, duh, erosion in sandy areas. They are rebar stakes pounded into the ground. I'm guessing that was the purpose of the now-removed rebar that was near the Mesquite Dunes.

ImageErosionPins2 by Candace66, on Flickr

ImageErosionPins1 by Candace66, on Flickr

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Gowergulch42
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Re: Mysterious Steel Rebar North of Mesquite Dunes - Details

Post by Gowergulch42 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:13 am

Interesting! I've been digging and haven't found anything published (in the last few years) on erosion rates/dune migration in Mesquite Flat or greater Death Valley. That means it could be part of a greater research project that hasn't been completed, or they were marking an anthropological site, or the research simply hasn't been published yet. If one was so inclined, they could dig into the research permits issued during the time these rebar stakes were there but that's a lot of work.
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Death Valley Dazed
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Re: Mysterious Steel Rebar North of Mesquite Dunes - Details

Post by Death Valley Dazed » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:44 am

Gowergulch42 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:13 am
If one was so inclined, they could dig into the research permits issued during the time these rebar stakes were there but that's a lot of work.
Hey Candace_66 and Gowergulch, thanks for revisiting this "ancient thread" with more details. The erosion control sure sounds like the most plausible option and if I have any success "digging" into the research permits I will let you know. I may find time because my April DEVA trip is canceled due to the park closure.
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