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Panamints

Discuss 4x4'ing, Hiking, Backpacking, Camping
1974runner
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Panamints

Post by 1974runner » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:40 pm

Heading out this Thursday. Was wondering if there has been any snow accumulation in the Panamints. If so, at what elevation is snow line?

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hwstock
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Re: Panamints

Post by hwstock » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:44 pm

1974runner wrote:Heading out this Thursday. Was wondering if there has been any snow accumulation in the Panamints. If so, at what elevation is snow line?
I'm not sure anyone can be really accurate right now, but the NWS forecast for 9000' shows a 50/50 probability of snow vs rain.

http://tinyurl.com/mknmz6n

Then again, I was 1000' below the predicted snowline near Vegas today, and it was snowing. The snow didn't stick, but hey, it was 11 AM.

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Gowergulch42
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Post by Gowergulch42 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:40 pm

1.25 inches of rain at the Panamint Pass weather station. Temp was in the mid 40s and high 30s in the middle of the day so its really on that edge of having snow, but it probably isn't very low.

Here's the link:
http://www.raws.dri.edu/cgi-bin/rawMAIN.pl?caCPAN
Check out my reports and informative ramblings at http://dvexplore.blogspot.com

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Gowergulch42
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Post by Gowergulch42 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:43 pm

Definitely snow on Hunter Mountain. .85 inches of precipitation, temperatures in the mid 30s all day long.
Check out my reports and informative ramblings at http://dvexplore.blogspot.com

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wbdeford
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Post by wbdeford » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:51 am

If you can, take and post pics of the Panamints when you are there this week. Thanks!

1974runner
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Post by 1974runner » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:21 am

Will try to post some pics. Not sure where I'm going. If there's not much snow on charcoal kilns road and my truck would make it, is it possible to camp at mahogany flat or do they lock a gate this time of year.

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wbdeford
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Post by wbdeford » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:14 pm

Generally, they only close it if there is a reason to--not seasonally. The morning report says nothing about it being closed, but it hasn't been updated yet today:

http://www.nps.gov/deva/upload/Morning-Report.pdf

There are great spots along Emigrant Canyon and Wildrose Roads for getting shots of Rogers, Bennett, and Telescope Peaks.

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wbdeford
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Post by wbdeford » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:12 pm

Today's morning report shows flood damage to some lower elevation roads, but nothing that would indicate there is any problem getting to Mahogany Flat via Emigrant Canyon and Wildrose Road, though Wildrose Road is closed from Wildrose down to the Panamint Valley. A satellite photo from today (Dec 4) shows the snow line well above Mahogany Flat. Looks like most of it is above 10000 ft.

The Panamints are near the top of this pic, and about 2/3 of the way to the right:

http://ge.ssec.wisc.edu/modis-today/ind ... ution=250m

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MojaveGeek
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Post by MojaveGeek » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:41 pm

THat's a great image but I'm not quite sure how to interpret it. How do you see snow vs. clouds?

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Post by kwalsh » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:27 pm

MojaveGeek wrote:THat's a great image but I'm not quite sure how to interpret it. How do you see snow vs. clouds?
One hint is clouds have shadows and snow doesn't.

High altitude clouds won't correlate with high terrain and upslopes, snow will. Low altitude clouds can form from orographic lift which can confuse this issue causing a correlation with terrain.

You can use the false colors to help, but unfortunately their web display doesn't appear to give the most useful color band arrangement for snow and ice detection. The web display is band selections for fire detection. Read more here:

http://ge.ssec.wisc.edu/modis-today/about.html

and here:

https://earthdata.nasa.gov/data/near-re ... nse#rapid4

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Post by kwalsh » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:44 pm

Found another useful source:

http://modis-snow-ice.gsfc.nasa.gov/snow_cover/

From there you can grab a smaller more detailed quad of the region of interest. You can then click on that image and download higher resolution files of both reflectance and snow cover and then overlay them in an image processing application.

Doing that it appears for the most recent data almost all the white areas in the Panamints, Cottonwoods and Last Chance ranges are flagged as clouds and not snow or ice. Obviously there probably is snow and ice at the very highest elevations, but this 250m data so very few pixels are the highest peaks.

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MojaveGeek
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Post by MojaveGeek » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:07 pm

Interesting, thanks.

There are definitely satellite based techniques for measuring snow, based, I believe, on microwave reflectivity (of sunlight? Not sure). I don't know where the underlying data comes from, but if you google "ksl vortex" you get a nice interactive display courtesy of KSL, Salt Lake City. Open the "layers" drop down and there is a "snow cover (CONUS)" button you can click.

I've monitored this weather product for a couple of years in my local area and it seems fairly reliable.

Does not show any snow currently in the Panamints.

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hwstock
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Post by hwstock » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:23 pm

Saw snow above 9000' on Telescope, otherwise clear. We hit mud Friday for 40' neat SPW on Sat to Cottonwood Canyon.

1974runner
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Post by 1974runner » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:10 pm

Sorry for not filling the details of my trip for so long. Computer crash, busy work, life stuff.
Anyways had a great trip
-Thur 4th , drove over Tehachapi to red rock canyon.
-Fri 5th Red Rock canyon state park to Randsburg, Ridgecrest, Trona. Checked out Trona pinnacles. Then up to Panamint Valley and then up into the Panamints to Mahogany Flat. Fully clouded in, 20 ft visibility, no one else there, snow flurries, didn't stick
-Sat 6th, down into the valley, Mesquite Dunes, up to Mesquite springs campground, checked out Scottys castle, then out ton Bonnie Clair flats, Awesome full moon rise at Mesquite campground.
-Sun 7th, historic stovepipe wells, then out to Beatty, NV. Rhyolite, then Titus Canyon. Titus has been on the list for a long time, always seemed to be closed when I was in DV. well it was a lot of fun. Camped at Texas spring.
-Mon 8th, checked out badwater, hiked natural bridge, got it all alone, very nice, then cruised back through the Panamints, PV, and across to Olancha, down 395 to hwy 178 and through to Bakersfield and up the central valley through the thick fog home.
All said an done an awesome trip with my good friend.

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Candace_66
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Post by Candace_66 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:16 pm

Sunrise on the Panamints, Dec. 20, 2014:

Image

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