car upholstery as insulation?

Topics about survival techniques and situations
johnc
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car upholstery as insulation?

Post by johnc » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:00 am

Somewhere, way before the computer and internet, I saw an article about using everything available to survive a stranded car situation. As I recall. the "strandees" in the article trashed the upholstery and wrapped up in it for insulation. They may have also used it to make rudimentary snow booties out of. Being inventive like that can save one's tail. That being said, a person with a mindset to do things like that would probably not venture out unprepared. Maybe that's why I have not read news stories of using the upholstery for emergency insulation.

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deathvalleydan
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Post by deathvalleydan » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:13 am

Haha no kidding. If I had at least a tiny little glint of hope for rescue I wouldn't be going hari-kari on my interior. That stuff is expensive you know!
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Education is key to preservation. Knowledge is power.

greatbasinguide
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What killed Kim

Post by greatbasinguide » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:30 am

As a long time winter search and rescue person, I have watched the events unfold in Oregon

They, as in most lost victim situations made a series of mistakes before they got stuck. Afterwards Kim made two serious mistakes which predictably cost him dearly.

A. he left the road he was walking on.
B. He wore cotton. We call it life taking cotton. Once his cotton clothing became wet, he was doomed. Cotton loses insulation value when wet, and infact wicks heat away from the body..

That said, what parent among us would not have done much has he did?

The sad thing is, most modern Americans are lost in the wilderness. They simpy do not have the knowledge to survive a screwup.

In our local schools all kids attend a program each year called Hug a Tree, teaches them what to do when lost in the winter environment. We have not lost a child in nearly 30 years.

Even the teenagers who get drunk, drive over the snowy roads until they get stuck seem to survive.

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Post by Scott » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:03 am

Once again, Dad leaves the family to go get help, and dies. Mom stays with the kids and the car, and survives. Hmm.....

About 10 years ago there was a bizarre case in which a guy in Montana was driving home over a dirt road after work, skidded off into a ravine and became stuck. He decided to sleep in the car and try to extricate himself in the morning, when it was light. Overnight, it blizzed and he was completely drifted over. He was about 15 - 20 miles from pavement. Rather than using the car's materials to build snowshoes, and walking out, he LIVED IN THE CAR for 31 days before succumbing to cold and hunger. He kept a detailed diary, and slowly ate everything organic in the car. They found him in the spring.

There's a point (after 2 WEEKS!? hello...) when you can assume rescue isn't happening. I'd rather die trying to walk out, than die sitting in the car.

greatbasinguide
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worry

Post by greatbasinguide » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:36 am

Yes, I have always wondered what I would do.. I don't think I could sit in my car for more than a couple of days,, for better or worse, I would head out.

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Post by desert4wd » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:36 am

This is all interesting though very unfortunate for Kim of course. This makes me want to go though my container of extraction/survival stuff as it's been a while. It's good to inventory and inspect items periodically even if it's only for the reassurance that everything on the list is still in there. Same thing goe's for the regular tool box that is probably in and out of the vehicle more often.
desert4wd.com

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ahamacav
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Post by ahamacav » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:23 pm

That reminds me, I have to restock on my noodles supply.
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Tom
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more speculation on Kim

Post by Tom » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:43 pm

I have heard news reports mentioning rescue people finding articles of Kim's clothing and saying that he may have left them as guides for searchers. That may be possible but a couple other ideas come to mind:

1) When people get far enough into hypothermia their minds go wacko and they do weird things. Back in about 1975 3 or 4 guys were caught by a lengthy snowstorm in the mountains east of Phoenix. One of them was knowledgeable about survival and did the right things, while the others went bonkers from cold and started throwing snowballs at each other and (if memory serves) started taking off some of their clothing as well. Only one person survived to tell the tale.

2) Following up on greatbasinguide's comment, Kim may have taken off clothing that was wet and making him colder.

greatbasinguide
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awful

Post by greatbasinguide » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:38 pm

One of the awful things about winter search and rescue is that we often find victims by following their discarded clothing.

It is not uncommon to find victims in the snow stripped to their underwear.

Apparently in the last stages of hypothermia ones thermostat goes haywire and the victim feels over heated.

As a caution note, if you get cold your teeth chatter. If you have not warmed up, but you stop chattering, your body core temp has dropped below the point in which you can save your own life.

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Post by dsrtwonder » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:15 pm

GreatBasin wrote:
Yes, I have always wondered what I would do.. I don't think I could sit in my car for more than a couple of days,, for better or worse, I would head out.

My question -- didn't Kim stay in the car with his family for 5 days before setting out? That's a long time to wait before going out. That's a lot longer than most of us would stay.

greatbasinguide
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Yes

Post by greatbasinguide » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:21 am

Apparently he did.. I do feel badly for the family, they did all the classic mistakes that lead to death.

One question was answered for me. My sister says that 911 works anywhere as it is picked up by satellites,, apparently not.

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micah
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Post by micah » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:37 pm

911 cell phone calls are definitely not monitored by satellites. Syncing to a cell phone from a satellite would be very difficult, I know they sometimes can be monitored, but you need a pretty fancy CIA-style satellite to do so.

911 calls are handled by cell towers just like regular calls.

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Post by AndyR » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:42 pm

micah wrote:911 calls are handled by cell towers just like regular calls.
Which in good ole Kolifornia get you to the CHP.

http://cpr.ca.gov/report/cprrpt/issrec/ ... t/so19.htm

Andy

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Kelly
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Post by Kelly » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:57 pm

Didn't Kim burn the tires on their car? You would think that the smoke would attract attention, unless they burned them at night.
Kelly

greatbasinguide
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I

Post by greatbasinguide » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:57 pm

I was stuck in a mudhole on the far side of the Black Rock desert, I heard a small plane in the distance, I poured motor oil over a large sage brush and lit it, the oily smoke put a column in the sky, the small plane flew right by it,, never fazed him.. he was gone..

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