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Public Lands for the People

 
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N6ICSgold1
Jayhawker


Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:15 am 
Post subject: Public Lands for the People


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I know this site is for Hikers, and my hobby is metal detecting for Gold, at least it gets me out to some very beautiful areas. For the past 40 yrs., I've seen a lot of our land closed to "Protect" Whatever!, this group is out of California, they Fight the legal battles for the Public, Nationwide, and Death Valley is no exception.........Tom G

Web Site: plp1.org

Ps. Steve H. what a great site you have on your web page, especially the Panamint Dunes. I know the story of the Nemo Mine that's untold......
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Moly Man
Breyfogler


Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Bagdad, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Not just for hikers...and I imagine alot of the folks here could support organizations like this that work to maintain our access to public lands against the efforts of some enviroment groups that seek to limit access. I know I do. As far as hiking-I enjoy doing it but usually if i'm gonna shoulder a pack there's almost always a mine at the other end of that trail or route. Last month I hiked up to the Morning Glory mine following the aerial tram towers to the mine and then taking the access road back. Great fun but I can't say it was any more enjoyable not being able to drive to the mine.
I gather you've probably been metal detecting for a while now. I've been thinking about getting into gold detecting at some time in the future but not yet ready to invest the small fortune in a detector like Mine Lab, etc. Dating myself here but my first metal detector was an old BFO unit that was only good for finding the occasional coin but a whole lot of ferrous stuff like nails and cans.
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desert rider
Jayhawker


Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:03 am 
Post subject: Re: Public Lands for the People


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N6ICSgold1 wrote:
I know this site is for Hikers, and my hobby is metal detecting for Gold, at least it gets me out to some very beautiful areas. For the past 40 yrs., I've seen a lot of our land closed to "Protect"


From the looks of your web site, it looks like "people" really means miners. While I enjoy some of the mining ruins in Death Valley, I can't say that it compares to the awesomeness of the natural surroundings in the area. I definitely do not support any new mining in the area. If that puts me with the environmentalists, then so be it. In order for greatest possible number of people to enjoy Death Valley -- both our generation and future ones -- it is going to take some sensible resource management. There are plenty of fragile ecosystems in the desert, and building roads and digging holes in them does nothing to help preservation efforts.
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Original Bigfoot
Breyfogler


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Farmington, New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:53 am 
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Howdy Tom G.!

I am one who does support the goals of PLP. Seems every year more and more of the "public" desert and forest is closed to practical public access. I was out there end of March, first of April, and found several more miles of road closed, limiting access to several places I wanted to show some new visitors, but weren't able to due to time restraints. It's disappointing to talk up someplace, and plan it out, and then find a new "road closed-wilderness restoration" sign blocking access.

I'm also one of those who would support new mining in the area. In our desperate economic times, Americans need to learn that domestic resource development is a cornerstone of a secure economy. I've nothing against unspoiled views, either, but there will always be plenty of those due to practical access or resource conditions. Simple economics dictate that one cannot mine where one cannot get out the goods at a profit.

It's good to hear stories of the "old timers" in the area. To me, that's the best history lesson!
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Moly Man
Breyfogler


Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Bagdad, Arizona

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Quote:
From the looks of your web site, it looks like "people" really means miners. While I enjoy some of the mining ruins in Death Valley, I can't say that it compares to the awesomeness of the natural surroundings in the area. I definitely do not support any new mining in the area. If that puts me with the environmentalists, then so be it. In order for greatest possible number of people to enjoy Death Valley -- both our generation and future ones -- it is going to take some sensible resource management. There are plenty of fragile ecosystems in the desert, and building roads and digging holes in them does nothing to help preservation efforts.


Most responsible electronic gold prospectors that I know backfill all holes they dig before moving on. And Death Valley is closed to all prospecting (including the use of metal detectors) anyway so it seems that your concerns are a bit off target. If groups like People for the West or People for Public Lands serve as a balance against some of the more extremist views of some environmentalist...then they'll definitely have my support.
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Candace_66
Grubstaker


Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 407
Location: All over the SW

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:00 am 
Post subject:


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Original Bigfoot wrote:
... I was out there end of March, first of April, and found several more miles of road closed, limiting access to several places I wanted to show some new visitors, but weren't able to due to time restraints.


Out of curiousity, which areas/roads are you referring to?

Quote:
I've nothing against unspoiled views, either, but there will always be plenty of those due to practical access or resource conditions. Simple economics dictate that one cannot mine where one cannot get out the goods at a profit.


In other words, those views won't be accessible by motor vehicle! Wink
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Original Bigfoot
Breyfogler


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Farmington, New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:53 am 
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Exactly. I've hiked over the Panamints and well into the Inyos, as well as many miles of closed roads and into roadless areas, and of course spectacular views abound. There are also spectacular views available from roads and two-track trails. Both have their place. However, we all know that the size and scope of Death Valley National Park and the surrounding area makes practical travel challenging, particularly when one has to work around the work schedules of many people.

The closed routes (that were not closed last time I was there) were in the Butte Valley/Panamints area, and included the route down Redlands Canyon beyond Wood Canyon, and several side routes on the "Panamint Loop". Also, the route down Anvil Springs Canyon was closed, but this year was the first time I had ever been down there, so I have no idea when it was closed...apparently sometime since the German Tourists went missing down that way.

It's also been reported that the bridge in South Park Canyon has been signed as "closed to full sized vehicles" just since I was there in April..but general consensus is that it's the result of the BLM wanting to divest itself of any liability, much like Inyo County's perpetual closing of the Saline Valley Road, rather than any real attempt to close the route.
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Candace_66
Grubstaker


Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 407
Location: All over the SW

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:26 am 
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Original Bigfoot wrote:
Also, the route down Anvil Springs Canyon was closed, but this year was the first time I had ever been down there, so I have no idea when it was closed...apparently sometime since the German Tourists went missing down that way.


The road down ASC was closed before the Germans drove down there. Also, I understand there were signs indicating it was closed, but apparently someone removed them by the time the Germans got out there. Had the signs still been up, maybe they wouldn't have gone the wrong way?
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robbiemize
Grubstaker


Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Long Beach, CA and Corvallis, OR

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:18 am 
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wow i had never heard about the missing Germans before. thats too bad. from the story i just read it seemed like they had no respect for the land or area. broken beer bottles in ASC wash that matched the packages in their van. a stolen american flag from one of the mining camps in butte valley. small pieces of mining relics in the van... what a way to treat the land.

perhaps mother nature was pissed off
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Original Bigfoot
Breyfogler


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Farmington, New Mexico

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:52 am 
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Perhaps the German tourists "wouldn't have gone the wrong way", if there were signs present, but there are plenty of opportunities to got the "wrong way" on any road, anywhere, though admittedly not always with such deadly consequences.

It's not the government's responsibility to protect people who choose to explore the backcountry, any more than it's the government's responsibility to protect those who choose to explore the backcountry wholly unprepared and in an unsuitable vehicle vehicle, as they did. Seems they would have passed at least one sign that suggested "4x4 only"..or perhaps used some common sense when the road got rough.

Perhaps the Anvil Springs Route was "closed" prior to their travels..but I've read conflicting accounts of whether it was "legally" closed, or merely washed out and considered "impassible". Of course, 'impassible" is a relative term.
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MojaveGeek
Death Valley Resident


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 1305
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 6:33 pm 
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Of course, none of us have ever driven around a "road closed" sign, have we? Laughing
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http://www.media.mit.edu/~geek/dv_panos.html
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robbiemize
Grubstaker


Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Long Beach, CA and Corvallis, OR

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:55 am 
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removed
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Last edited by robbiemize on Sat May 28, 2011 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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N6ICSgold1
Jayhawker


Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:32 am 
Post subject: Glad To See The Enjoyment!


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There is a Federal Representative that is trying to "Undo" 10 Million Acres in the south west, that was closed years ago, by the BLM & Forest Service, for No Reason other than "Just Because We Can" excuse, Public Land is Public Land......Period! I will find the letter and share it on this web-site, I'm sure Most of you will support this. There will be No New Mining or Prospecting in Death Valley-Ever!, so don't worry about that, it's just the roads that were closed that we used to drive through are no longer available? and what I heard was " we don't have the Man-Power to patrol the area, so Let's just Close It. I am just a recreational prospector, not a Hiker, but I enjoy what you and your family does, being out there! I live by one creed: Fill Your Holes, Pick Up Trash, and Never, Never Kill Snakes, it's Their Home....Tom G.
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